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Im in the car biz now as a buyers rep. I work for the customer not the dealers. I have been on the dealer end as a salesman, finance man and sales mgr. There is no set % as a rule of thumb. Different manufactures have different margines. Offer a specific amount over dealer cost. IE: $500, ask How much the "hold back is" You will get a look to kill. Dont take it personal. Ask to see the invoice. DONT TAKE THEIR WORD FOR IT. If they dont show it to you WALK. If they say no to your offer WALK. Do NOT become emotional about the car. Your best move is the ability to walk away with your money. As for financing ALWAYS shop for your money first. NEVER let the dealer handel it for you. Know your credit, how much you can borrow and @ what interest rate BEFORE you shop for a car. P.S. Hold back is a additional amount of profit the dealer gets from the manufacturer per car. If the hold back on a Toyota Camry is $450 and you offer $500 over invoice, they make $950. Just knowing about that addional money gives you a negotiating tool or "Bullet". Remember they are in biz to make money so let them. They will make ALOT of money in the car biz just make sure its not off you. Good luck. Almost forgot, new cars loose about 60% of their value in the first two years. Thats alot of money. Look for a "off lease" 1 or 2 years old. Still under warranty and you dont eat the depreciation.